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	<title>Comments on: A little brain teaser&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/</link>
	<description>Daniel Lemire's blog is about life in academia, research in Computer Science, wondering how we can reconcile fast databases and algorithms with the informal and asemantic nature of the world around us. It is broadcasted from Montreal (Canada).</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 04:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Kevembuangga</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50177</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevembuangga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 09:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50177</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;İsmail Arı&lt;/b&gt; &lt;i&gt;I do not remember but there was a similar puzzle where the person should find a single question that will allow him to identify which is Truan and which is Falsian.&lt;/i&gt;

The single question is "What would the &lt;b&gt;other&lt;/b&gt; say if I asked him if he is a liar?"

This is easy because it is only a matter of logic, but I suspect that Daniel intent is more mischievous, to highlight the ambiguity of natural language use for stating logic/math problems.
Because everything depends on how you define "always disagree" and this cannot be elucidated from the problem statement alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>İsmail Arı</b> <i>I do not remember but there was a similar puzzle where the person should find a single question that will allow him to identify which is Truan and which is Falsian.</i></p>
<p>The single question is &#8220;What would the <b>other</b> say if I asked him if he is a liar?&#8221;</p>
<p>This is easy because it is only a matter of logic, but I suspect that Daniel intent is more mischievous, to highlight the ambiguity of natural language use for stating logic/math problems.<br />
Because everything depends on how you define &#8220;always disagree&#8221; and this cannot be elucidated from the problem statement alone.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50176</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 04:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50176</guid>
		<description>"Are you a Falsian?", even though both of them answer "no", they are actually answering different questions. So it's not a surprise they give the same answer.
A is answering "Is A a Falsian?"
B is answering "Is B a Falsian?"
Of course they give the same answer "no".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Are you a Falsian?&#8221;, even though both of them answer &#8220;no&#8221;, they are actually answering different questions. So it&#8217;s not a surprise they give the same answer.<br />
A is answering &#8220;Is A a Falsian?&#8221;<br />
B is answering &#8220;Is B a Falsian?&#8221;<br />
Of course they give the same answer &#8220;no&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50175</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50175</guid>
		<description>Worried - you're on a planet where half the people will lie to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Worried - you&#8217;re on a planet where half the people will lie to you.</p>
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		<title>By: rg</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50174</link>
		<dc:creator>rg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:43:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50174</guid>
		<description>There's one point that puzzles me: statement #4 does not necessarily need to be true. The negation of "we always disagree" is "we don't always disagree", not "we never disagree". So it is plausible that Byp #2 is a Falsian.

I go with Anthony. Although some may say the question "are you a Falsian" is another problem, it fits this problem well: both should answer "no" and we know here that they don't always disagree. Hence Byp #2 must be the liar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s one point that puzzles me: statement #4 does not necessarily need to be true. The negation of &#8220;we always disagree&#8221; is &#8220;we don&#8217;t always disagree&#8221;, not &#8220;we never disagree&#8221;. So it is plausible that Byp #2 is a Falsian.</p>
<p>I go with Anthony. Although some may say the question &#8220;are you a Falsian&#8221; is another problem, it fits this problem well: both should answer &#8220;no&#8221; and we know here that they don&#8217;t always disagree. Hence Byp #2 must be the liar.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Ogilvie</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50173</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Ogilvie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50173</guid>
		<description>Here's my question: how could an explorer discover the Truthian and Falsian species and their properties in the first place?  Without assuming that they always tell the truth or always lie, is there a series of questions an explorer could ask where the Truthian/Falsian nature of Bypolarians is the only valid conclusion? (I don't know the answer to this question.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s my question: how could an explorer discover the Truthian and Falsian species and their properties in the first place?  Without assuming that they always tell the truth or always lie, is there a series of questions an explorer could ask where the Truthian/Falsian nature of Bypolarians is the only valid conclusion? (I don&#8217;t know the answer to this question.)</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50172</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50172</guid>
		<description>To Anthony, you are puzzling us, but you are wrong. “Are you a Falsian ?”,this is actually two different questions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Anthony, you are puzzling us, but you are wrong. “Are you a Falsian ?”,this is actually two different questions.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50171</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 07:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50171</guid>
		<description>Don't worry, be happy !

When asked : "Are you a Falsian ?", they should both answer "No". Therefore, the two Bypolarians don't always disagree.
Therefore, the second Bypolarians is a Falsian, and you should not worry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t worry, be happy !</p>
<p>When asked : &#8220;Are you a Falsian ?&#8221;, they should both answer &#8220;No&#8221;. Therefore, the two Bypolarians don&#8217;t always disagree.<br />
Therefore, the second Bypolarians is a Falsian, and you should not worry.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Reid</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50170</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Reid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 07:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50170</guid>
		<description>Nice puzzle and I came to the same conclusion as the other comments.

Now you're warmed up, you can try the &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hardest_Logic_Puzzle_Ever" rel="nofollow"&gt;Hardest Logic Puzzle Ever&lt;/a&gt;. (Watch out for the spoilers further down on the same page).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice puzzle and I came to the same conclusion as the other comments.</p>
<p>Now you&#8217;re warmed up, you can try the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hardest_Logic_Puzzle_Ever" rel="nofollow">Hardest Logic Puzzle Ever</a>. (Watch out for the spoilers further down on the same page).</p>
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		<title>By: İsmail Arı</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50169</link>
		<dc:creator>İsmail Arı</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 06:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50169</guid>
		<description>Worried.

Case 1, Both are Truans or both are Falsians: They can not meet with different greetings. Conflict!

Case 2, FB is Truan and SB is Falsian: SB is telling the truth at the end of the conversation but he should't. So this can not be the case.

Case 3, FB is Falsian and SB is Truan: All statements seem convenient, so we should be worried.

I do not remember but there was a similar puzzle where the person should find a single question that will allow him to identify which is Truan and which is Falsian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Worried.</p>
<p>Case 1, Both are Truans or both are Falsians: They can not meet with different greetings. Conflict!</p>
<p>Case 2, FB is Truan and SB is Falsian: SB is telling the truth at the end of the conversation but he should&#8217;t. So this can not be the case.</p>
<p>Case 3, FB is Falsian and SB is Truan: All statements seem convenient, so we should be worried.</p>
<p>I do not remember but there was a similar puzzle where the person should find a single question that will allow him to identify which is Truan and which is Falsian.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevembuangga</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50168</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevembuangga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 05:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50168</guid>
		<description>Mmmmm...
      First Byp a liar   Second Byp a liar

Stmt 3   False           True
Stmt 4   True            ****

It cannot be that Stmt 4 by Second Byp be true if Falsians ALWAYS lie, therefore the First Byp is the Falsian =&#62; worried.

What's most interesting is that such a simple problem appear puzzling, there must be some step in our deductions which goes against our natural tendencies, r.e. Johnson Laird's &lt;a href="http://www.si.umich.edu/ICOS/gentleintro.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Mental Models&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mmmmm&#8230;<br />
      First Byp a liar   Second Byp a liar</p>
<p>Stmt 3   False           True<br />
Stmt 4   True            ****</p>
<p>It cannot be that Stmt 4 by Second Byp be true if Falsians ALWAYS lie, therefore the First Byp is the Falsian =&gt; worried.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s most interesting is that such a simple problem appear puzzling, there must be some step in our deductions which goes against our natural tendencies, r.e. Johnson Laird&#8217;s <a href="http://www.si.umich.edu/ICOS/gentleintro.html" rel="nofollow">Mental Models</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Parand</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50167</link>
		<dc:creator>Parand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50167</guid>
		<description>Since the Falsian wouldn't say they always disagree, Second must be the Truan, and therefore you should be worried.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since the Falsian wouldn&#8217;t say they always disagree, Second must be the Truan, and therefore you should be worried.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50166</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50166</guid>
		<description>worried</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>worried</p>
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