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	<title>Comments on: A little brain teaser&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/</link>
	<description>I am a Computer Science professor at UQAM: Web, OLAP, Databases, Time Series, Collaborative Filtering, Information Retrieval, e-Learning.</description>
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		<title>By: Kevembuangga</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50177</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevembuangga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 09:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50177</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;İsmail Arı&lt;/b&gt; &lt;i&gt;I do not remember but there was a similar puzzle where the person should find a single question that will allow him to identify which is Truan and which is Falsian.&lt;/i&gt;

The single question is &quot;What would the &lt;b&gt;other&lt;/b&gt; say if I asked him if he is a liar?&quot;

This is easy because it is only a matter of logic, but I suspect that Daniel intent is more mischievous, to highlight the ambiguity of natural language use for stating logic/math problems.
Because everything depends on how you define &quot;always disagree&quot; and this cannot be elucidated from the problem statement alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>İsmail Arı</b> <i>I do not remember but there was a similar puzzle where the person should find a single question that will allow him to identify which is Truan and which is Falsian.</i></p>
<p>The single question is &#8220;What would the <b>other</b> say if I asked him if he is a liar?&#8221;</p>
<p>This is easy because it is only a matter of logic, but I suspect that Daniel intent is more mischievous, to highlight the ambiguity of natural language use for stating logic/math problems.<br />
Because everything depends on how you define &#8220;always disagree&#8221; and this cannot be elucidated from the problem statement alone.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50176</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 04:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50176</guid>
		<description>&quot;Are you a Falsian?&quot;, even though both of them answer &quot;no&quot;, they are actually answering different questions. So it&#039;s not a surprise they give the same answer.
A is answering &quot;Is A a Falsian?&quot;
B is answering &quot;Is B a Falsian?&quot;
Of course they give the same answer &quot;no&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Are you a Falsian?&#8221;, even though both of them answer &#8220;no&#8221;, they are actually answering different questions. So it&#8217;s not a surprise they give the same answer.<br />
A is answering &#8220;Is A a Falsian?&#8221;<br />
B is answering &#8220;Is B a Falsian?&#8221;<br />
Of course they give the same answer &#8220;no&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50175</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50175</guid>
		<description>Worried - you&#039;re on a planet where half the people will lie to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Worried &#8211; you&#8217;re on a planet where half the people will lie to you.</p>
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		<title>By: rg</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50174</link>
		<dc:creator>rg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:43:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50174</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s one point that puzzles me: statement #4 does not necessarily need to be true. The negation of &quot;we always disagree&quot; is &quot;we don&#039;t always disagree&quot;, not &quot;we never disagree&quot;. So it is plausible that Byp #2 is a Falsian.

I go with Anthony. Although some may say the question &quot;are you a Falsian&quot; is another problem, it fits this problem well: both should answer &quot;no&quot; and we know here that they don&#039;t always disagree. Hence Byp #2 must be the liar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s one point that puzzles me: statement #4 does not necessarily need to be true. The negation of &#8220;we always disagree&#8221; is &#8220;we don&#8217;t always disagree&#8221;, not &#8220;we never disagree&#8221;. So it is plausible that Byp #2 is a Falsian.</p>
<p>I go with Anthony. Although some may say the question &#8220;are you a Falsian&#8221; is another problem, it fits this problem well: both should answer &#8220;no&#8221; and we know here that they don&#8217;t always disagree. Hence Byp #2 must be the liar.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Ogilvie</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50173</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Ogilvie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50173</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s my question: how could an explorer discover the Truthian and Falsian species and their properties in the first place?  Without assuming that they always tell the truth or always lie, is there a series of questions an explorer could ask where the Truthian/Falsian nature of Bypolarians is the only valid conclusion? (I don&#039;t know the answer to this question.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s my question: how could an explorer discover the Truthian and Falsian species and their properties in the first place?  Without assuming that they always tell the truth or always lie, is there a series of questions an explorer could ask where the Truthian/Falsian nature of Bypolarians is the only valid conclusion? (I don&#8217;t know the answer to this question.)</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50172</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50172</guid>
		<description>To Anthony, you are puzzling us, but you are wrong. “Are you a Falsian ?”,this is actually two different questions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Anthony, you are puzzling us, but you are wrong. “Are you a Falsian ?”,this is actually two different questions.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50171</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 07:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50171</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t worry, be happy !

When asked : &quot;Are you a Falsian ?&quot;, they should both answer &quot;No&quot;. Therefore, the two Bypolarians don&#039;t always disagree.
Therefore, the second Bypolarians is a Falsian, and you should not worry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t worry, be happy !</p>
<p>When asked : &#8220;Are you a Falsian ?&#8221;, they should both answer &#8220;No&#8221;. Therefore, the two Bypolarians don&#8217;t always disagree.<br />
Therefore, the second Bypolarians is a Falsian, and you should not worry.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Reid</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50170</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Reid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 07:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50170</guid>
		<description>Nice puzzle and I came to the same conclusion as the other comments.

Now you&#039;re warmed up, you can try the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hardest_Logic_Puzzle_Ever&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Hardest Logic Puzzle Ever&lt;/a&gt;. (Watch out for the spoilers further down on the same page).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice puzzle and I came to the same conclusion as the other comments.</p>
<p>Now you&#8217;re warmed up, you can try the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hardest_Logic_Puzzle_Ever" rel="nofollow">Hardest Logic Puzzle Ever</a>. (Watch out for the spoilers further down on the same page).</p>
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		<title>By: İsmail Arı</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50169</link>
		<dc:creator>İsmail Arı</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 06:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50169</guid>
		<description>Worried.

Case 1, Both are Truans or both are Falsians: They can not meet with different greetings. Conflict!

Case 2, FB is Truan and SB is Falsian: SB is telling the truth at the end of the conversation but he should&#039;t. So this can not be the case.

Case 3, FB is Falsian and SB is Truan: All statements seem convenient, so we should be worried.

I do not remember but there was a similar puzzle where the person should find a single question that will allow him to identify which is Truan and which is Falsian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Worried.</p>
<p>Case 1, Both are Truans or both are Falsians: They can not meet with different greetings. Conflict!</p>
<p>Case 2, FB is Truan and SB is Falsian: SB is telling the truth at the end of the conversation but he should&#8217;t. So this can not be the case.</p>
<p>Case 3, FB is Falsian and SB is Truan: All statements seem convenient, so we should be worried.</p>
<p>I do not remember but there was a similar puzzle where the person should find a single question that will allow him to identify which is Truan and which is Falsian.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevembuangga</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50168</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevembuangga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 05:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50168</guid>
		<description>Mmmmm...
      First Byp a liar   Second Byp a liar

Stmt 3   False           True
Stmt 4   True            ****

It cannot be that Stmt 4 by Second Byp be true if Falsians ALWAYS lie, therefore the First Byp is the Falsian =&gt; worried.

What&#039;s most interesting is that such a simple problem appear puzzling, there must be some step in our deductions which goes against our natural tendencies, r.e. Johnson Laird&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.si.umich.edu/ICOS/gentleintro.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mental Models&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mmmmm&#8230;<br />
      First Byp a liar   Second Byp a liar</p>
<p>Stmt 3   False           True<br />
Stmt 4   True            ****</p>
<p>It cannot be that Stmt 4 by Second Byp be true if Falsians ALWAYS lie, therefore the First Byp is the Falsian =&gt; worried.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s most interesting is that such a simple problem appear puzzling, there must be some step in our deductions which goes against our natural tendencies, r.e. Johnson Laird&#8217;s <a href="http://www.si.umich.edu/ICOS/gentleintro.html" rel="nofollow">Mental Models</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Parand</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50167</link>
		<dc:creator>Parand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50167</guid>
		<description>Since the Falsian wouldn&#039;t say they always disagree, Second must be the Truan, and therefore you should be worried.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since the Falsian wouldn&#8217;t say they always disagree, Second must be the Truan, and therefore you should be worried.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/09/25/a-little-brain-teaser/comment-page-1/#comment-50166</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=1314#comment-50166</guid>
		<description>worried</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>worried</p>
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