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	<title>Comments for Daniel Lemire's blog</title>
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	<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog</link>
	<description>I am a Computer Science professor at UQAM: Web, OLAP, Databases, Time Series, Collaborative Filtering, Information Retrieval, e-Learning.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:34:08 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Trading latency for quality in research by Daniel Lemire</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2010/02/08/trading-latency-for-quality-in-research/comment-page-1/#comment-52231</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Lemire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=2406#comment-52231</guid>
		<description>@Geoff Several papers have been written using wikis and blogs. See for example:

http://polymathprojects.org/

I&#039;m not sure it has been wildly successful yet, but we are still at the early stages.

And I would certainly participate in such a project if I found one that was a good match for my research interests. And I hope I will one day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Geoff Several papers have been written using wikis and blogs. See for example:</p>
<p><a href="http://polymathprojects.org/" rel="nofollow">http://polymathprojects.org/</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure it has been wildly successful yet, but we are still at the early stages.</p>
<p>And I would certainly participate in such a project if I found one that was a good match for my research interests. And I hope I will one day.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trading latency for quality in research by Geoff Wozniak</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2010/02/08/trading-latency-for-quality-in-research/comment-page-1/#comment-52230</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Wozniak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:19:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=2406#comment-52230</guid>
		<description>@Itman What about indecent scientists?

Has there been attempts at authoring a paper using something like a wiki, or is that maybe going too far?

Regardless, I&#039;m all for this experiment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Itman What about indecent scientists?</p>
<p>Has there been attempts at authoring a paper using something like a wiki, or is that maybe going too far?</p>
<p>Regardless, I&#8217;m all for this experiment.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trading latency for quality in research by Daniel Lemire</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2010/02/08/trading-latency-for-quality-in-research/comment-page-1/#comment-52229</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Lemire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=2406#comment-52229</guid>
		<description>@Jonathan

That&#039;s a good point. 

But I think that it is not a problem if you are the primary author of the paper in question and you are willing to share the credit.

But, yeah, I expect to have to think this through some more as I do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jonathan</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a good point. </p>
<p>But I think that it is not a problem if you are the primary author of the paper in question and you are willing to share the credit.</p>
<p>But, yeah, I expect to have to think this through some more as I do it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trading latency for quality in research by Itman</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2010/02/08/trading-latency-for-quality-in-research/comment-page-1/#comment-52228</link>
		<dc:creator>Itman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=2406#comment-52228</guid>
		<description>Johnatan,
Though I would share some of your concern, but ...   reviewers do improve the quality of the paper and often considerably, but that does not make them co-authors. The primary goal of such an exposure is to find errors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Johnatan,<br />
Though I would share some of your concern, but &#8230;   reviewers do improve the quality of the paper and often considerably, but that does not make them co-authors. The primary goal of such an exposure is to find errors.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trading latency for quality in research by Jonathan Katz</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2010/02/08/trading-latency-for-quality-in-research/comment-page-1/#comment-52227</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=2406#comment-52227</guid>
		<description>One thing to consider is what happens if a paper is improved substantially by comments on the blog. This could also result in 20-author papers. Not necessarily a bad thing for science, but something to think about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing to consider is what happens if a paper is improved substantially by comments on the blog. This could also result in 20-author papers. Not necessarily a bad thing for science, but something to think about.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trading latency for quality in research by Itman</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2010/02/08/trading-latency-for-quality-in-research/comment-page-1/#comment-52226</link>
		<dc:creator>Itman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 17:34:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=2406#comment-52226</guid>
		<description>Hi Daniel, it is a good idea,
I think that you could also crosspost to 
http://www.pubzone.org/
PS: I don&#039;t think palgiarism would be a problem. No decent scientist would publish somebody else&#039;s paper. Besides, if it is an experimental one, you need software to reproduce results. That is you can be easily caught and banned from the scientific community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Daniel, it is a good idea,<br />
I think that you could also crosspost to<br />
<a href="http://www.pubzone.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.pubzone.org/</a><br />
PS: I don&#8217;t think palgiarism would be a problem. No decent scientist would publish somebody else&#8217;s paper. Besides, if it is an experimental one, you need software to reproduce results. That is you can be easily caught and banned from the scientific community.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trading latency for quality in research by Jo Vermeulen</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2010/02/08/trading-latency-for-quality-in-research/comment-page-1/#comment-52225</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo Vermeulen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=2406#comment-52225</guid>
		<description>Great initiative, I&#039;m curious to see how it works out!

W.r.t. to plagiarism: I don&#039;t think direct plagiarism will be a problem, as it is will be obvious that the ideas were published here first. There&#039;s no problem with arXiv pre-prints either.  Besides, the readers of this blog are your witnesses :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great initiative, I&#8217;m curious to see how it works out!</p>
<p>W.r.t. to plagiarism: I don&#8217;t think direct plagiarism will be a problem, as it is will be obvious that the ideas were published here first. There&#8217;s no problem with arXiv pre-prints either.  Besides, the readers of this blog are your witnesses <img src='http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Trading latency for quality in research by Harisankar H</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2010/02/08/trading-latency-for-quality-in-research/comment-page-1/#comment-52224</link>
		<dc:creator>Harisankar H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=2406#comment-52224</guid>
		<description>Cool. would like to see about the result.
But what about the risk of plagarism of unpublished works ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool. would like to see about the result.<br />
But what about the risk of plagarism of unpublished works ?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Where to get your ebooks? by Itman</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2010/02/03/where-to-get-your-ebooks/comment-page-1/#comment-52223</link>
		<dc:creator>Itman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=2401#comment-52223</guid>
		<description>I am reading mostly technical papers, which come in PDF. I don&#039;t have an ebook yet and just use a laptop. It is not very convenient, though. But I will not gonna buy an ebook unless it size/price ratio gonna decrease significantly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am reading mostly technical papers, which come in PDF. I don&#8217;t have an ebook yet and just use a laptop. It is not very convenient, though. But I will not gonna buy an ebook unless it size/price ratio gonna decrease significantly.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Where to get your ebooks? by Philippe Beaudoin</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2010/02/03/where-to-get-your-ebooks/comment-page-1/#comment-52222</link>
		<dc:creator>Philippe Beaudoin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=2401#comment-52222</guid>
		<description>I love to read, but the DRM-happy nature of Amazon and the control-freak attitude of Apple are the precise reasons why I will keep on waiting. I&#039;m sure there is a company somewhere who understands the value of DRM-free data on an open marketplace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love to read, but the DRM-happy nature of Amazon and the control-freak attitude of Apple are the precise reasons why I will keep on waiting. I&#8217;m sure there is a company somewhere who understands the value of DRM-free data on an open marketplace.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Where to get your ebooks? by Ben Babcock</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2010/02/03/where-to-get-your-ebooks/comment-page-1/#comment-52221</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Babcock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=2401#comment-52221</guid>
		<description>The Future Shop Tech Blog just posted an entry last night that highlights Webscription/Baen Free Library and Stanza, an ebook app for iPhones:
http://www.futureshopforums.ca/t5/Tech-Blog/Not-iBooks-eBooks/ba-p/195321

In my comment, I mentioned another good place to find free ebooks: Random House&#039;s Suvudu.com.  They release a couple of titles each month, DRM-free, for a limited time.

Thanks for the recommendations!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Future Shop Tech Blog just posted an entry last night that highlights Webscription/Baen Free Library and Stanza, an ebook app for iPhones:<br />
<a href="http://www.futureshopforums.ca/t5/Tech-Blog/Not-iBooks-eBooks/ba-p/195321" rel="nofollow">http://www.futureshopforums.ca/t5/Tech-Blog/Not-iBooks-eBooks/ba-p/195321</a></p>
<p>In my comment, I mentioned another good place to find free ebooks: Random House&#8217;s Suvudu.com.  They release a couple of titles each month, DRM-free, for a limited time.</p>
<p>Thanks for the recommendations!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Getting serious about online teaching by Daniel Lemire</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2010/01/30/getting-serious-about-online-teaching/comment-page-1/#comment-52218</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Lemire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=2397#comment-52218</guid>
		<description>@Paul It depends what &quot;near term&quot; means for you. Lipton&#039;s perspective is 25 years.


Universities move slowly. That&#039;s in their nature. I don&#039;t expect anything quick to happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Paul It depends what &#8220;near term&#8221; means for you. Lipton&#8217;s perspective is 25 years.</p>
<p>Universities move slowly. That&#8217;s in their nature. I don&#8217;t expect anything quick to happen.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Getting serious about online teaching by Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2010/01/30/getting-serious-about-online-teaching/comment-page-1/#comment-52217</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=2397#comment-52217</guid>
		<description>Two thoughts: One, this blog post and the comments are an example of the benefit of technology on education. You put forward an idea I wouldn&#039;t have considered and you&#039;re leading interesting threads of discussion, the two basic roles of a teacher. Perhaps in some ways the decentralization of the Internet is the important new contribution to learning, letting anyone learn from anyone else.

Second, Laval University offering an online CS degree strikes me as paralleling the news industry&#039;s relationship with the Internet. Newspapers put content online for free, hoping for big advertising dollars and figuring anything was better than nothing from people who otherwise wouldn&#039;t have read the publication. The first ones out probably did well. Then when everyone arrived margins shrunk, and suddenly it wasn&#039;t just attracting new readers, but pulling away existing subscribers to the higher margin, more established products. Now we&#039;re seeing the start of the backlash against free online news as media corporations pull their content behind paywalls. It&#039;s not exactly parallel, particularly in that online degrees aren&#039;t free, but they should result in lower margins than housing students locally. Just as free, online high quality news seemed inevitable online before there was a sudden a fight against it, we may be in the optimisitic phase of online learning, before it grows common enough to threathen the existing model. 

As you say, none of us can predict the future, but I could see one where the bogeyman of online degree mills is trotted out as a reason we need to differentiate between online and traditional degrees. &quot;I talked regularly with leading thinkers in my field, why should I get the same piece of paper as someone across the world who just watched youtube videos?&quot; the talking point would go. Philisophically, I agree with you that online learning could lead to a better education system. I just have my doubts about whether it&#039;ll happen in a meaningful way in the near term. If society starts to look at online degrees as inferior, that&#039;ll start costing those students jobs, and the smart money will be on offline learning, whether or not its better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two thoughts: One, this blog post and the comments are an example of the benefit of technology on education. You put forward an idea I wouldn&#8217;t have considered and you&#8217;re leading interesting threads of discussion, the two basic roles of a teacher. Perhaps in some ways the decentralization of the Internet is the important new contribution to learning, letting anyone learn from anyone else.</p>
<p>Second, Laval University offering an online CS degree strikes me as paralleling the news industry&#8217;s relationship with the Internet. Newspapers put content online for free, hoping for big advertising dollars and figuring anything was better than nothing from people who otherwise wouldn&#8217;t have read the publication. The first ones out probably did well. Then when everyone arrived margins shrunk, and suddenly it wasn&#8217;t just attracting new readers, but pulling away existing subscribers to the higher margin, more established products. Now we&#8217;re seeing the start of the backlash against free online news as media corporations pull their content behind paywalls. It&#8217;s not exactly parallel, particularly in that online degrees aren&#8217;t free, but they should result in lower margins than housing students locally. Just as free, online high quality news seemed inevitable online before there was a sudden a fight against it, we may be in the optimisitic phase of online learning, before it grows common enough to threathen the existing model. </p>
<p>As you say, none of us can predict the future, but I could see one where the bogeyman of online degree mills is trotted out as a reason we need to differentiate between online and traditional degrees. &#8220;I talked regularly with leading thinkers in my field, why should I get the same piece of paper as someone across the world who just watched youtube videos?&#8221; the talking point would go. Philisophically, I agree with you that online learning could lead to a better education system. I just have my doubts about whether it&#8217;ll happen in a meaningful way in the near term. If society starts to look at online degrees as inferior, that&#8217;ll start costing those students jobs, and the smart money will be on offline learning, whether or not its better.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Getting serious about online teaching by Daniel Lemire</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2010/01/30/getting-serious-about-online-teaching/comment-page-1/#comment-52216</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Lemire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=2397#comment-52216</guid>
		<description>@Ed Sure. Maybe I can use another blog post to explain why I think online learning can be substantially better?

But you have to watch out because there will always be people insisting that classroom lecture is the absolute best thing. And within their frame of mind, they are right too.

So &quot;better quality&quot; is something you need to qualify.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ed Sure. Maybe I can use another blog post to explain why I think online learning can be substantially better?</p>
<p>But you have to watch out because there will always be people insisting that classroom lecture is the absolute best thing. And within their frame of mind, they are right too.</p>
<p>So &#8220;better quality&#8221; is something you need to qualify.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Getting serious about online teaching by Edward Bilodeau</title>
		<link>http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2010/01/30/getting-serious-about-online-teaching/comment-page-1/#comment-52215</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Bilodeau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/?p=2397#comment-52215</guid>
		<description>We seem to disagree on the importance of quality in higher education. 

I&#039;m suggesting that there is a difference in quality between a course whose contact-hours consisting primarily of information-transmission (i.e. lecturing in-person or online, real-time or time shifted; the medium is irrelevant) and a course whose contact-hours consist of interaction, coaching, and collaboration. Not only is there a difference, but this difference is important to providing students with authentic and useful learning experiences. I am putting this forward as a preferred future, the one we should be working towards specifically because it would do a superior job of achieving the goals of higher education.

Given your comments of the difference in quality between books produced by scribes and books produced by printing presses, I believe you are talking about something else, about the difference between physically sitting in a lecture hall watching someone talk and sitting somewhere else at some other time in front of a screen watching someone talk. 

Putting aside the question of whether a recording of someone talking is the best way to transmit the information to students, I would agree that making these recordings available online is a good way to scale the information, and furthermore it has several advantages over the in-class lecture. Students have the additional flexibility of viewing the lecture when and where they want. They can also review the lecture in whole or in part, based on their own learning needs.

Your comments suggest that you believe that universities do not have learning as their goal, but rather that they are primarily motivated by generating revenue. While there is plenty of evidence to support this idea, I think it oversimplifies reality. I see this more as a case of university administrators struggling to meet a diverse set of requirements within set of constraints. In order to make their lives easier, there will be pressure to redefine what is meant by &#039;learning&#039;, to reduce it to something less then it should be. The future you are suggesting here fits that bill, which is why it wouldn&#039;t surprise me to see it gaining traction in the halls of academe.

I have already started to see pressures from university administration to move courses online, so I agree with you in that this isn&#039;t a hypothetical situation: it is happening now. What I&#039;m arguing for is that we should be very careful to not bake the dated teaching practices of the past into our learning systems of the future. We have an opportunity to use information technology to radically improve the student learning experience. I&#039;m hoping we make the most of it!

--Ed</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We seem to disagree on the importance of quality in higher education. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m suggesting that there is a difference in quality between a course whose contact-hours consisting primarily of information-transmission (i.e. lecturing in-person or online, real-time or time shifted; the medium is irrelevant) and a course whose contact-hours consist of interaction, coaching, and collaboration. Not only is there a difference, but this difference is important to providing students with authentic and useful learning experiences. I am putting this forward as a preferred future, the one we should be working towards specifically because it would do a superior job of achieving the goals of higher education.</p>
<p>Given your comments of the difference in quality between books produced by scribes and books produced by printing presses, I believe you are talking about something else, about the difference between physically sitting in a lecture hall watching someone talk and sitting somewhere else at some other time in front of a screen watching someone talk. </p>
<p>Putting aside the question of whether a recording of someone talking is the best way to transmit the information to students, I would agree that making these recordings available online is a good way to scale the information, and furthermore it has several advantages over the in-class lecture. Students have the additional flexibility of viewing the lecture when and where they want. They can also review the lecture in whole or in part, based on their own learning needs.</p>
<p>Your comments suggest that you believe that universities do not have learning as their goal, but rather that they are primarily motivated by generating revenue. While there is plenty of evidence to support this idea, I think it oversimplifies reality. I see this more as a case of university administrators struggling to meet a diverse set of requirements within set of constraints. In order to make their lives easier, there will be pressure to redefine what is meant by &#8216;learning&#8217;, to reduce it to something less then it should be. The future you are suggesting here fits that bill, which is why it wouldn&#8217;t surprise me to see it gaining traction in the halls of academe.</p>
<p>I have already started to see pressures from university administration to move courses online, so I agree with you in that this isn&#8217;t a hypothetical situation: it is happening now. What I&#8217;m arguing for is that we should be very careful to not bake the dated teaching practices of the past into our learning systems of the future. We have an opportunity to use information technology to radically improve the student learning experience. I&#8217;m hoping we make the most of it!</p>
<p>&#8211;Ed</p>
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